Interview with Chetna Sinha - Founder of Mann Deshi Bank (Part 1)

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Chetna Gala Sinha is an Indian social activist working on behalf of women in drought-prone areas of rural India. In 1997 she founded  Mann Deshi , India's first bank by and for women. In addition, she was co-chair of the World Economic Forum in Davos in 2018. Nils Jonas Hein spoke to her about how entrepreneurship can contribute to strengthening women's rights :

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Nice to meet you Chetna. What inspired you to start Mann Deshi Bank?

I was born and raised in Mumbai. During my studies I joined the Gandhi organization and traveled all over India. It became clear to me that I wanted to leave the city to work in the villages.

After graduating, I taught economics in Mumbai. Meanwhile, while traveling, I met my husband, a poorly educated peasant leader, and fell in love with him. We're getting married and I've been teaching for another year. Then I finally decided to go to settle down with him in his village Mhaswad.

In 1996, the women of the village approached me and said that they wanted to save, but the banks would not allow them to open an account with them. These women didn't even ask her for money. The women wanted to save, wanted to be able to plan financially. So I figured why not just set up a bank for them?

We applied for a banking license but were turned down. Why? Because the women could neither read nor write. But the women were not intimidated: "Then we'll just learn to read and write!" Immediately afterwards we started offering courses for them and applied again for the license.

This time the women said: "We may not be able to read or write, but we can do arithmetic!" And they challenged the official in charge: "Calculate with us the interest on any amount of capital without a calculator and you will see that we are faster be able to do the math.” In fact, that got him talking to our wives, and we finally got the license.

So we, women in rural India, founded a bank in 1997 without any outside support. It was women's loans, women's savings, women's capital. That's how it all started back then and I'm so proud that today we have over 200,000 customers at Mann Deshi. 

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What were Mann Deshi's next steps after founding the bank?

Although Mann Deshi is a bank founded for women, it was the women themselves who came to me and said they wanted to save and borrow. So we thought about expanding this model to other areas.

I remember a shepherd and goatherd who could neither read nor write. One day she came into the bank and said to me, “I want to take out a loan, but I can't read my property papers. When I travel I don't know which direction the buses go. I want to use a mobile phone, but I don't understand how to do that.” In that moment, I realized that having skills is their fundamental right.

So I figured now is the time to create a place where women can learn these skills. They also have very valuable knowledge themselves, for example about animal husbandry and agriculture. So why not start a business school for women?

Generally, people think that rural people are uneducated, they need to be educated so that eventually they will be able to improve their lives by themselves. However, I think people are wrong. The women said they couldn't read or write, but they could do arithmetic - and that's their strength. Although they never went to school, they can manage their own finances. 

That's why I thought it made sense to set up the business school in such a way that women without school education could acquire knowledge there in order to be a role model for other women. So we founded the business school and offered a "Deshi MBA".

The idea behind it was that there are two different ways to run a business school. The first option is to build a Skill Center. But in the villages there are no factories, no jobs. So even if you make such a center available to them, it still doesn't mean that the women will get work.

But the women were very clear: "We have a little land and cattle - what can you teach us so that we can improve our income?" The other possibility is to gear the school entirely to the needs of the women and thus to them enable them to set up agricultural businesses.

You are not only running a business if you own a small factory or shop, but also if you keep animals and plan to buy and sell these animals in a way that makes a living. That's why we created the business school for women in rural areas and adapted the courses to their individual needs.

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You just explained that women have influenced you in how you run business school. Did they also have an impact on how you run the bank?

When I founded the bank, everyone said to me: "You can't do this. Start a bank... how are you going to do that?” And I wasn't really sure at times either, but our wives reassured me: “We'll make it! We will save, we will build our own capital and we will make loans. Tell us how to manage finances and we will repay the loans on time.”

But that wasn't the only time. Since women work all day, they ask me, “Can't you offer door-to-door banking?” But you need the technology to do that. That's why, in 2006, we were the first bank in the country to introduce a 'smart savings book' – ie a chip card as an electronic savings book. And why? Because women want to be in control of their finances. It's not just about access. It's about control: I will make decisions about my own money.

In India, gender ratios are very different. Women often lose their money here because they have no influence on decisions within the family. Because of this, they wanted us to design the product so that they could freely decide whether to buy or sell their business.

So we decided to make loans on buffalo, goats and chickens, but not on dairies, goat farms or poultry farms. Why not? Because these big companies are run by men and the profits go into their bank accounts. On the other hand, if the women keep buffalo or herd goats, then they have an income from the sale of the milk.

Yes, financial control is immensely important. That's why we offer online banking, mobile banking and cyber wallets. The women have never been to school, but they still use these products. This is the bank card - can you see the chip?

He needs a PIN number, the cyber wallet also needs one. But our wives didn't want a PIN number. I tried to reassure her: “We have the business school, we will strengthen your digital and financial skills and you will be able to remember the PIN number. We'll take care of that!"

But the women replied, “No, find another solution for us. How about a biometric thumbprint?” And we thought that was a wonderful idea. So we linked their accounts to their biometric thumbprint and they said, "Look, anyone can force us to give out the PIN, but nobody can use our thumb."

It was so perfectly clear to them. That's why I always think to myself that if you want to find market solutions for people or communities, you have to consider one thing:  Never provide poor solutions to poor people, they are smart!

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