Interview with Chetna Sinha - Founder of Mann Deshi Bank (Part 2)

Chetna Gala Sinha is an Indian social activist working to empower women in drought-prone areas of rural India. In 1997 she founded  Mann Deshi , India's first bank by and for women. In addition, she was co-chair of the World Economic Forum in Davos in 2018. Nils Jonas Hein spoke to her about how entrepreneurship can contribute to strengthening women's rights:

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How did you initially draw public attention to the topic and convince others of your project?

Today I smile and listen to your question. But when I decided to start the bank, everyone laughed at me. When our license was denied, they made fun of our wives. These women, who have not graduated from school, are trying to learn to read and write and start a bank.

It's one thing to say to others, 'You're not going to make it', but another is to laugh and try to rob them of their confidence. Still, that was the reaction and I wasn't always sure if we were going to make it. However, what really encouraged me was that all the women around me told me every day that we could do it.

And when I think about it now, I realize that if I had been to places like Yale or Harvard back then, they would have told me I couldn't do it. Even in Mumbai I heard these things. But the women had so much confidence because they always saw changes in their lives. You work in agriculture. They farm their land. If there is a drought, they try to find a solution to it. When you surround yourself with these people, things start out like, 'Yes, we can do it and we will do it.' It's not that eternal 'First, let me see if...'

However, not only did the local people tell me that I would not make it, but also my friends and colleagues in Mumbai with whom I had studied. Everyone said, "What are you thinking? Do you want to start a bank? This is not easy ... and especially in a small place. How are you going to get the necessary technology there?” So it was a very negative reaction from everyone.

But all the women in the village believed in the project - and my team believed in it too. And today I'm sitting here in this very small village and I'm talking to you via Zoom. Things have improved a lot, but there were other times too. So, one thing is to believe in yourself and the other is to be persistent… persistent and patient .

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What are your greatest achievements with Mann Deshi?

One of our ladies, who ran a chai stand on the street, was arrested by the police one day. In India, many people do their business on the street, but usually they do it on the corner. The reason she was arrested was that she was conducting her business in a public place using subsidized gas, which cannot be used for commercial purposes.

So every day she rode her bike from home to the place to sell chai and rode back in the evening. When she was arrested, we got her out of police custody two days later, thinking she must be devastated. But she said, "No, I'm going to take out a loan and I'm going to rent a place where I can set up my own fast food restaurant. I will prove that I can do business."

We were convinced that she can be an example for others and that all the women around her, the women in the village, should know that. So we started a radio to share those stories. When you have such experiences, you start thinking about new ideas. I have the feeling that our radio was the first real success.

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What do you think is the biggest challenge for women as they embark on the entrepreneurship path?

The biggest challenge is that everyone says, "You can't do this... it's not possible!" I want to share another example of this with you.

One of our ladies, Vanita, runs an agricultural production company. She hasn't even finished school yet. And when she decided to do it, everyone told her, "You can't do this." And not only that. When she went to register her company, she didn't have her ownership papers with her, because in India, ownership is in the name of man is running.

So she had to convince her husband first. Nevertheless, she obtained the papers, made herself a co-owner of the property and finally registered the agricultural production company. Her example gave so many women the courage to say, "We will also put our name on the property papers."

Those are the challenges. Since no one has done these things before, you think you can't do it. But that's not true. No one has ever set up a bank for women. Nobody founded a radio for women here. But we did it!

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How is COVID-19 impacting the micro-entrepreneurs you work with? How do you react to the crisis?

Here's another example: one of my wives, who sews school uniforms, had a big order from school before the pandemic. Then suddenly there was the lockdown and the schools were closed. Because the schools were closed, the children didn't go to school and nobody ordered a uniform. She had already bought everything for this job, for more than 5000 school uniforms. She had invested a lot.

As she pondered what to do next, she thought to herself, "I have so much stuff in my house, but nothing to eat." With no masks available at this point in the pandemic, she decided to keep all the stuff used to make masks.

Despite the curfews, she took to the streets with hundreds of masks and started selling. And government officials allowed her to because there were nowhere else to buy masks. And when she saw that she could sell hundreds of masks in two hours, she formed a group with other women on WhatsApp, a virtual training group where you can learn to make quality masks.

I'm so proud to tell you that we then had her trained by Cipla, one of the top pharmaceutical companies in the country. To date, she has already sold 800,000 masks and will soon be giving a speech at a major WhatsApp event because she used WhatsApp for her business.

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How has COVID-19 affected Mann Deshi Bank's work and how are you dealing with these new challenges?

In the beginning there was a lot of tension in the bank, because a bank is an institution that gives interest on savings. We have to service the interest of all these women who have invested their money with us. You also have to go about your day-to-day business and pay the salaries of the employees.

Nobody came to the bank because of the pandemic. But at the same time, everyone wanted to transact. Fortunately, at that point we already had digital banking, already had our ATMs. So we had to make sure that our ATMs were always sufficiently stocked. India is still a cash economy, not a fully digital economy. That was the first step.

The second step was that although we offer mobile banking, many people cannot use it. So we used our radio to explain to people how to do it. In addition, some of our employees drove from village to village to explain it to the people. It was important to offer customers this opportunity.

More importantly, people needed emergency loans. Everyone needs that, especially in a pandemic. If I'm running a business in, say, fabrics and now I have to switch to food, then I have no credibility in the market. I don't know the people and nobody will give me a loan.

So we created the product 'Credits for Emergency', very small amounts of money, and offered them on the doorstep because people couldn't get into the bank. Our entire staff was very busy with it. Our employees rode around on scooters, and so the police wouldn't stop them, they put up a big sign that said, "I'm a banker." This is how we faced the challenges.

The radio also played an immensely important role. People in India are not used to social distancing. There is no concept of social distance in India. So how do you tell each other all the important things? The radio helped us a lot.

 

→ Click here for the third part of the interview.